The Final Cut
The Final Cut is a bold and insightful podcast exploring the latest in film and television. Hosted by Professor John Cook and filmmaker Charlotte Bjuren, each episode dives into new releases, classic gems, and the stories shaping screen culture today.
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The Final Cut
Tales from the Tabloids! Bill Coles on Movies, Rogue and … Ivana Trump
Have you ever wondered what really goes on behind the scenes of British tabloid journalism? In this captivating episode, we’re joined by Bill Coles, whose 25-year career at publications like The Sun offers a masterclass in the art of the scoop.
Bill takes us from the hallowed halls of Eton to the fast-paced, high-stakes world of Fleet Street. With sharp wit and candid reflection, he recounts how his privileged background initially marked him as an outsider—until Prince William’s enrollment at Eton turned him into The Sun’s secret weapon. His tales, including schoolboy informants (one nicknamed “Agent Orange”), offer a revealing look into a now-banned era of tabloid tactics.
The episode also dives into Bill’s latest novel, Movie Rogue, a deliciously sharp fictional account of a tabloid reporter infiltrating Stanley Kubrick’s enigmatic Eyes Wide Shut film set. Drawing on his real-life experiences as a movie extra alongside stars like Colin Firth and Brooke Shields, Bill blurs the line between fact and fiction with ease. His behind-the-scenes knowledge—like Kubrick making Tom Cruise redo a doorway entrance nearly 100 times—adds rich detail to this cinematic satire.
From newsroom rivalries and royal scandals to a blind date with Ivana Trump, Bill’s stories are as outrageous as they are enlightening. He weighs in on everything from Harry and Meghan (“Fleet Street gold”) to the enduring mystery of Lord Lucan, sharing timeless lessons on what makes stories truly stick.
Follow Bill @williamcoles1 and look out for Movie Rogue, coming this autumn!
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Spotlights fade the curtains rise, new stories waiting behind our eyes.
Speaker 1:Charlotte and John with the final say, breaking down the screens in their own way. This is the Final Cut, where the real reviews ignite.
Speaker 3:Hi, welcome to another episode of the Final Cut. Today I'm delighted to welcome a truly remarkable guest, bill Coos. He's also known to many readers as William Coos. With a journalist career spanning over 25 years, bill has reported from the front line of politics. Spending over 25 years, bill has reported from the front line of politics. He has also had a key role as a New York correspondent. He's also worked as a political correspondent and the Royal Reporter, and his work has also graced the pages of Wall Street Journal, the Scotsman Prima, baby and more.
Speaker 3:But Bill Cole isn't just a journalist. He's a prophetic author and master storyteller. He's written 10 novels that span the genres from historical fiction to satire and also to murder mystery. Among his most popular work is Mr Two Bomb, a gripping tale set against the backdrop of World War II. The woman who made women cry, and over the blends motion with intrigue.
Speaker 3:And the well-tempered carrier Clavier, which showcases literary range. It's also known for its razor-sharp wit, with books like David Cameron's School Days, a satire imaging of the former Prime Minister's youth, and Spare Hair Handbook, a glamorous guide-stylist advice from Prince Harry himself. He also has written the novel the Eton Affair and Eton Road, which dive into the traditions and secrets of one of Britain's most iconic schools, which he himself intended. While Palace Rogue offers a cheeky inside-out look at royal life, and for those curious about the world of tabloid journalism, his non-fiction book Red Top being a reporter ethically, legally and with panache is a must-read. Bill's work is fearless, funny and always thought-provoking. Whether it's dissecting the ethics of journalists, crafting unforgettable characters, he brings a unique voice and deep understanding of British culture and society. Please join me in welcoming the brilliant Bill Coles to find his final cut. He's here to talk about his latest work, movie Rogue.
Speaker 1:And my first question is could you tell me more about Movie Rogue and maybe perhaps a bit about your life? Yes, of course. Hi John, hi Charlotte, thrilled to be with you both. So, yes, I used to be a journalist for quite some time, cutting my teeth on Fleet Street, and about 15 years ago I started writing novels and always in the back of my mind I had been wanting to do a sort of rom-com series, but with certain sort of world that I know as a tabloid reporter.
Speaker 1:But the problem with a tabloid reporter in fiction is that if you see a tabloid reporter in a book or on telly or on screen, they are always awful, they're always scum suckers who are just these jackals who are out for news. And what I wanted, or what I've been trying to do, is create a new style of reporter, I mean a new style of yeah, a new style of rom-com, with obviously this scum sucking reporter, and he is a tabloid reporter. So therefore he is a scumsucker, but he does have one redeeming quality and that is that he is a matchmaker 20 years ago. He weaves, he gets into the palace and he's getting all the stories and all the pictures, but he does get these sort of two central characters together. And so this is the sort of thing that this reporter is inserting himself in these unlikely positions and is getting all the stories but is spreading love dust everywhere, and so people fall in love. And so for the last um eight years or so I've been a movie extra. Being a movie extra is pretty good fun. You're meeting hundreds of weird people and you're being bossed around and occasionally you get sea stars in action, and I'd.
Speaker 1:When I started off I thought that it might be useful as a useful sort of basis for a book, but I didn't quite know how it was.
Speaker 1:Work would work, and then, about three years ago, I realized how it would work and that would be that we would insert our son reporter whose name is Kim, we would insert him on to the set of Stanley Kubrick's last film, which was this eye-watering film called Eyes Wide Shut. And by that stage Kubrick was about 69 and was pretty crazy, and his films that he'd done before had just got longer and longer and longer. And this particular one still has the all-time record for the longest continuous movie production, which was 400 days back-to-back production, which was 400 days back to back, and it stars, uh, come crews and his then wife, nicole, and the uh, and it's got this searingly graphic. Uh, already seen in it, which is the film itself, is middling, uh, but the the audio scene is like that is something else and uh, so this is the audio scene is like that is something else, and so this scene took months to film and this is the scene that this Sun reporter has inserted himself into.
Speaker 2:So that's the story of Movie Rogue. Absolutely fascinating, bill, and you'll see that we're all decked out in our red tops today, by the way, in your honour, honour with the newspaper.
Speaker 2:I'm flattered but absolutely fascinating. Fascinating to learn that it's about Eyes Wide Shut, a movie that I know reasonably well. I've seen quite a few times. I think I have it on DVD somewhere. But can I ask you've been a real movie extra, so what movies have you been on actually real movies that you've been a real movie extra? So what movies have you been on actually real movies that you've been?
Speaker 1:involved with. Let me see, I started off about seven years ago with Fast and Furious 9, which cost 300 million to make, and they were filming in Edinburgh for about a month and I was doing the same. I was just a guy walking down the street with my mate and this particular scene they were filming for about three days from myriad angles and it took on screen. It lasted about 30 seconds and I was on for about half a second. So that was that one. And then let me see, quite recently I was in a TV series with called Lockerbie, with Colin Firth and I was playing the part of a scum, sucking reporter at the Hague when the Lockerbie trial happened about 25 years ago, and with Brooke Shields in A Castle for Christmas an absolute dross film, but it does have a big dance at the end in which I managed to clout Brooke Shields when we were having a hoedown. Yeah, so being a movie extra is yeah, it's great fun. You're not being paid much, but you know you're meeting all these weird characters.
Speaker 2:What did you bring then from your knowledge of the real movie world into the novel, because I presume you weren't on the set of Eyes Wide Shut 25 years ago?
Speaker 1:No, I wasn't, though. As you can imagine, a number of reporters intermittently tried to get in on sets and get pictures and all that sort of stuff. And there was a stunt reporter. He was a showbiz hack called Sean Hall, and he swore blind to me that not only did he get onto the set of Eyes Wide Shut for this damn orgy at Elvton Hall, but that he became friends with or, yeah, friends, he said with Tom Cruise. And so that is the. That's the sort of basis for the story, though there are some large caveats to that, in that Sean could have been telling the truth, but you know he was. He was steeped in showbiz journalism and so he was he. He was quite capable of making things up. Anyway, unfortunately Sean is now dead, so we will never know.
Speaker 1:Um, but what, what I? What you get from being a, an actual extra is you get all the detail which you're not going to see otherwise, and and you know, of course you could read up about being an extra and the rest of it. But I much prefer these days to have to do primary research and get stuck in and immerse myself in whatever the subject is, and so that you know you are getting a flavor of the conversations they're having and you're seeing all these weirdos. There are a lot of very eccentric people and you're getting a real flavor of what it's like in the canteens and what you're doing in your downtime and the rest of it. So yeah, some writers, some writers. They like to do their research by just reading tons of books, but if at all possible, I like to get stuck in. It's much more fun.
Speaker 3:And did any real-life events personality inspire this character in movie route? I assume it's a continuation of Kim's story perhaps, or do you have a show?
Speaker 1:Yes, it is. So you've got this, you've got this sun hack Kim, and he is inserting himself in these various weird places that are quite interesting and some of the stories are, are true, um, and I like to, I like to make stuff up and I like to, uh, blend it in with real stuff. So, as you can imagine, for this I ate every single book I could on kubrick and quite a few on Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, but mainly I was eating stuff on Kubrick, who was just this complete despot, and he generally partnered up with Warner Bros and because his films always made money and always came in under budget by the end, he had complete power. And so he got Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman to sign up this unbelievable contract, and it was a contract without end. Normally, if you're signing a movie contract, you know you'll agree to work on the project for whatever 100 days might be about the norm for a movie. But they say, no, we will work with you for just as long as it takes.
Speaker 1:And what Kubrick liked to do was break his stars down, and the way he would do it was with repeated takes. And, um he, so you do your take, and it would be perfectly confident, because you know, tom cruise is a pretty confident actor and he'd just sit there and say do it again, and he kept it. He'd just say do it again, do it again, do it again and, uh, memor, he got Tom Cruise to walk through a doorway 95 times and for some people, like Shelley Duvall who was on in the Shining, he completely broke her at one crucial scene in the Shining. He got her doing the same thing about 130 times, anyway. So these are some of the stranger things about Kubrick that I like to include.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that feeds itself into the novel and without giving away, obviously, the entire plot of the new novel, how how does does Kim insert himself into this very, very peculiar scenario?
Speaker 1:Well, kubrick was an immensely secretive guy. What had happened was that he'd done Full Metal Jacket and everyone had known, which is about Vietnam, and it had gone on a really long time, as usual for Kubrick. But meanwhile another film came out at much less money and much less time, platoon by Oliver Stone, and it was a similar kind of Vietnam story and it swept the board. Sort of best picture and best director must have been a joker for him. And so, after Full Metal Jacket, he decided to be. He was ultra secretive about all his uh projects, most especially eyes wide shut. So nobody knew what it was based on, nobody knew the name of the film and very few people knew the story at all, apart apart from, I guess, tom Cruise and a few others. Certainly no one knew that it was based on this weird book by a guy who I'd never heard of called Arthur Schnitzler. It's a pretty boring book too, but anyway, kubrick was obsessed with it.
Speaker 1:Um, and what happens in the story is that, uh, this this sun reporter um gets wind of of this film and that tom cruise is in it and he he does it by.
Speaker 1:He's in just in the uh lavatories in this club, in a cubicle and he overhears people talking at the urinals and this happened a couple of times on the Sun when stories were overheard, you know, people chatting at the urinals and these pearls would slip. Anyway, the Sun reporter gets to hear this and then is duffed up by the producer, and so then he is on a mission to insert himself on the set and to sort of to, you know, put two fingers up to the producer, and so the way he does it is that he, like me, joins a number of extras agencies, and if you want to be an extra, you want to join an extras agency, and so there are quite a lot of them, but the main one in Scotland is the BBB Talent Agency, and they do me proud. So that's how he does it and that's how you get jobs if you want to be an extra.
Speaker 3:Sounds good. I was just always wondering is there any journalist or author that has inspired you in your work?
Speaker 1:There are a number of hacks who have. Journalists are generally not that good at writing novels. The reason is that you've got to make you think you can really churn out the words. But moving from journalism, which hopefully is largely fact-based, to novels is you are taking a giant leap and it takes some time to learn this entirely new skill. And I'm afraid I'm up there with the writer, ian Banks, who said, memorably and correctly the first million words you write are shit. But there are two.
Speaker 1:Well, there are many journalists who have made this giant leap from journalism to fiction, primarily Jilly Cooper. Dame Jilly Cooper, outstanding with her writer series. Bernard Cornwall, who is brilliant with historical fiction, and Robert Harris, who used to be the political editor of the Sunday Times for a while and has made this, has now become a giant of fiction. And he, like he, well, I'm slightly trying to emulate him in that he takes a fact and he will then turn it into great fiction. And so with with palace rogue, which is based on the story of this uh, tabloid hack becoming a palace footman, uh, he wasn't allowed to the actual um journalist was not allowed to write about anymore because of all the injunctions. So I've just taken the story and I have run with it and that is uh yeah. So the number of great hacks who've done great books and there are a number who have failed abysmally and they suddenly they think it's going to be a great novel. And then, as Giles Corran discovered, no mate, it's a different piece of cheese of cheese.
Speaker 2:I believe the name of that Mirror journalist was Ryan Parry, that's right. And it was the Daily Mirror. He smuggled his way in to be a footman for the Royals, faking his CV. And what have you Did? You consult Ryan Parry in terms of your research, or is he completely injuncted and is?
Speaker 1:not able to say a word about it. I tried to get in touch with Ryan, but I think he had a relative who had health problems. But I didn't really need Ryan. I mean, I read all his stories, such as after he'd finished being a footman, the Mirror ran two days worth of stories and and then they were injuncted and so he's never been able to write another word about it and he had to hand over all his pictures. But I didn't really need to. I mean, you know, once you've got the, the detail of what he's got and the detail of life in the palace, and then you can, you know, you can make it all up. Though one thing that I found quite amusing was obviously I've made up a lot of characters, but I wasn't going to start making up royals' names.
Speaker 1:You know, like the Queen has got to be the Queen and Prince Andrew has got to be Prince Andrew, and there was a whole load of great detail about Prince Andrew's apartment which was just simply eye-watering, particularly his teddies. Watering, uh, particularly his teddies. He used to have about well, maybe he still does, I don't know he used to have about 70 teddies which, uh, in the daytime had to be all put in lines on his bed, on this big double bed, and so you've got about six down the bottom, and then another six getting bigger and bigger and bigger until you got the big ones on the top, and then two beds, either, two bears either side of the thing, and so that's that. But before he goes to bed, all the bears have to be transferred to their special position in the fireplace and on the mantelpiece, and he'd go absolutely bloody spare, uh, if the maid had put the damn teddies in the wrong position.
Speaker 1:And it's just like crazy. Look, if you want to, you know, muck around lining up your teddies, mate, then knock yourself out. But you don't get a maid to do something like that, you know, when you're in your 40s or 50s, and so there, there were various other stupid stories like that, and he was very he's teetotal, but he was very keen on dating stars who would come over sort of goggle-eyed, including Caprice, and anyway, I was about halfway through the story and I hadn't quite worked out the ending, but I suddenly had a revelation that li libel, as you know, is damaging somebody's reputation and, uh, prince Andrew can no longer be libeled.
Speaker 1:Short of saying he is a sex killer, you cannot destroy him his reputation any further so so I tucked in with that one, and he has a suitably horrific ending.
Speaker 2:Brilliant.
Speaker 3:This is not your first time writing about the royal family. You wrote a royal. You were a royal reporter for the Sun. How did you find that? And I know you wrote about when Harry and William was at Eton, etc. How did you find writing about the Royal family?
Speaker 1:The Royals were a great gig. And I, as you said, am an Old Etonian, and having been to Eaton puts a lot of people's backs up. Some weirdos might be slightly impressed oh, you're an Old, eton puts a lot of people's backs up. Some weirdos might be slightly impressed, oh, you're an old Etonian. But most people, particularly editors, think loser, and you're sort of 50 points down before you know, entitled wanker sort of thing. You're 50 points down before you start, and that particularly goes for tabloid editors.
Speaker 1:Who is this posh knob is the sort of general availing attitude. And so I'd been a journalist for about six years and had uh been cutting my teeth for about a year, shifting on the sun that's freelancing, and then I had this remarkable lucky break prince william is going to my old school. And then suddenly, uh suddenly, all these doors opened for me. Because what happened when prince william went to eton was that the press did a deal with Buckingham Palace that we were not allowed to run any stories at all about Prince William while he was at the school, so that he could fail all his exams and be given detentions without having every single detail appearing in the paper. But what then happened was there was still this limitless appetite for stories about Eton.
Speaker 1:So we just started writing about all his posh friends and all these scrapes they got into and very quickly the boys were calling in with stories and I was obviously the guy, their sort of handler, and I was giving them thousands and thousands of pounds in cash for these stories. And the best I had quite a number of tipsters, but the best by far was this kid who was called agent orange, and that is the the sort of uh kid in uh who's the star of uh Eaton road. Is this, this guy called agent orange. Um, and bizarrely, uh it might uh tickle you to know that uh, since then the the Ipsos, is that the press standards thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Ipsos is the sort of self-regulatory one, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. Well, they have now introduced, thanks to my antics about 25, 30 years ago, 25, 30 years ago, they have brought in a new rule that you are now no longer allowed to pay minors.
Speaker 2:Ah well, fame at last.
Speaker 3:Fame at last, yes, but I think they got wise to the fact, because I was a student when William was at St Andrews instead, and I think by then they had kind of even more strict regulation and they really struggled to get anything out. I think after that.
Speaker 2:So how did an old Etonian Bill find his way into red-top journalism in the first place?
Speaker 1:Well, I got a spectacularly good 2.2 degree in theology from Bristol and I went traveling for a couple of years and then I was working in a hotel as a waiter for some time and my mum was sick to death of this prodigy, wasting away his time at this hotel in Dorset, and he paid what was then quite a lot of money about 400 quid for me to take vocational guidance and answer all these questions, do a few tests, do an interview, and at the end of it they said you should be a reporter, which is funny enough. A number of my parents' friends had hopefully suggested this too. And anyway, it took me about three months to get a job on a paper and when I went to Miss Spruill's Tertiary College, learning shorthand and typing, and then I started as an indentured reporter. Indentures, I don't know if they have such things now, but that meant that you had to stay at the paper for about two, two and a half years until you were qualified, and this was a paper in CERN testicle, the Wilson Gloss standard, and uh, anyway, to my astonishment, I discovered that, uh, I quite liked it and that I was, that I was okay at it, and after about two years I was getting hungrier and I did hanker to get onto the Sun, which 30 years ago was quite a big paper.
Speaker 1:It was the biggest selling English language daily in the country, in the world actually, English language. On a good day it would sell 5 million papers, which is a readership of about 12, 13 million, so that's about a fifth of the country. So it used to have astonishing clout. It doesn't now, but it did then and it was quite a cheeky paper. And so then I got a job on evening paper and then on an agency and then I started shifting at the sun and I thought after six years as a hack that I was pretty red hot. And then suddenly working at the sun, I realized it's like I'm in the foothills and there was so much more to learn.
Speaker 3:It was great and, uh, you know, uh, how do you think journalism has changed now? What? What do you think the biggest changes are in the 25th year of journalism since you started? It's a sun, and up to now I mean well for you the the main thing is obviously that uh, newspapers are dead in the water.
Speaker 1:They're trying to come up with ways of making papers play, you know, with paywalls and all the rest, but for local journalism, I mean, you know, the Wilson Gloss Standard in San Francisco used to have maybe eight reporters in the head office and, you know, know, district reporters all over the place. Now I'd be surprised if they got three or four. So there's no money. How you're going to get money out of local journalism is going to be tricky. Of course. In 20 years time there'll probably be about three big national papers left, the, the cream of the crop, but they've all got problems.
Speaker 1:But one beautiful thing has not changed and that is being a reporter and the business of being a reporter, and that is extracting stories, your story out of you. That has not changed and it's pretty much the same as it's been since newspapers first came into existence. It doesn't matter how the news is transmitted. Whether it's on the radio or telly or the internet or a little chip that has been planted into your head, you will still always need a reporter who will come up to you. Same about getting people on side, charming them and extracting their story. That is the skill of a reporter and takes a long time to get. So yeah, in that respect that's the same as it's ever been. I suspect that's the same as it's ever been.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's just the question of how to monetize it in the future, as you say. But it does look as if you in the 80s and the 90s were kind of in that golden age of tabloid journalism where there was a lot of money around. And can I just take you through some of the stories that have attached to you as a tabloid journalist that I came across while researching some of the stories that have attached to you as a tabloid journalist that I came across while researching some of your books? For example, when you were in New York, you had a blind date with Ivana Trump. Can you tell us about that? And, more to the point, was Donald informed?
Speaker 1:Ivana had split up with Donald Trump by then In 97, 98, donald was just this property developer I'm not sure he was even doing the Apprentice then and Ivana was his first wife and she memorably said after splitting with Donald don't get mad, get everything, don't get mad, get everything. And she was promoting a thing by might have been mcdonald's, might have been kentucky fried chicken called a tower burger. And so the sun somehow got on side with her and I'm I go along in this limo, pick her up and we're eating tower burgers together. So the whole thing was completely stunted up. Yeah, she was really nice, she was charming and little did I know she had a thing for, uh, younger men. Her sort of uh, mixed boyfriend or three were all younger than me. So maybe I could have had a chance, but regrettably I was not really professional and just did the story.
Speaker 3:Is there any other one of these characters you met as a journalist or some charismatic journalist?
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the great journalists was a guy called John Kay. John Kay was the chief reporter of the Sun and had won Scoop of the Year and Journalist of the Year, and he was a really good journalist and, unlike me, towards the end I lost the hunger as a reporter. And if you've lost the hunger, if you couldn't care less about the news and you're thinking it's all the same and it's just various confected showbiz bollocks involving celebrities and it's all pretty meaningless, then you've got to get out of it. You can't really be a reporter anymore. But John Kay, he had had a breakdown and he had killed his first wife and it's one of these, it was one of these completely taboo subjects that you could never, ever, ever talk about. I sat next to him for some years and we played tennis together and sort of go on double dates, me with my girlfriend and him with his second wife, mercedes, and we were pretty good mates and I learned from him the silver tongue, which is how to work a telephone. But you could never say to him what the hell happened, how, because what, well, what? I'll tell you what happened. It's all, it's all in the papers.
Speaker 1:He um was the son's uh, industry correspondent and went along to the tuc, had a breakdown. And uh leaves in sort of disgrace and goes back to his first wife, who was Japanese, and said that's it, my career's over, I'm going to kill myself. And she says, well, you can't do that because I can't go back home. And he says, you're right, we'll do a double. And he then drowns her in the bath and then tries to kill himself but does not succeed. And um, so he was, I think, eventually convicted of manslaughter and spent uh two or three years in fran barnett, which is a mental lunatic asylum, and then he came out and just breezed back into the sun, with the proviso that he would never leave the office for a story, because if you're on a story when you're out in the field, that's where the stress is. So when the big stories happened, he would be like this black spider weaving all the, all these strands, hundreds of strands of copy in, and he would turn them into the splashes. Anyway, he was a great journalist.
Speaker 2:So do you think that his experiences turned him into this great journalist, or had he already been that before?
Speaker 1:He was a brilliant journalist in his own right, but he realised after that that he was never going to cut it in the field, as it were, I mean. And so what he did was he embedded himself with a whole load of contacts, particularly in the MOD and the cops, but mainly the Ministry of Defense, and the cops, but mainly the Ministry of Defence, and they would be giving him any tasty stories that had come up. For his son, a tasty story would be any military officer sleeping with any other officer or somebody in the other ranks. And he got scoop after scoop with this, but unfortunately he was completely thrown under the bus. What happened was that there was the whole phone hacking saga and then Rupert Murdoch, I guess, decided that he wanted a completely clean slate and called in the cops to check for anything else.
Speaker 1:And at one stage there were over 100 cops in the News International offices going through all these old emails and what they would? It was called Operation Elveden and what they were particularly looking for was hacks giving money to cops and civil servants, um which there was a lot of money slopping around, and these civil servants and these police officers were getting thousands and they the about 25 of them were charged with uh bribing cops and civil servants. But the hacks defences were giving money to whistleblowers and John had this hanging over him for two years and then there was finally a trial and all the hacks got off, apart from one who idiotically pleaded guilty, but he was eventually cleared. So all the hacks got off but it completely broke John and he lost it. He never went back to the newsroom and he was dead shortly thereafter.
Speaker 3:How do you think the phone hacking scandal has changed journalism? Do you think there are practices today? I mean, some of it is a lot easier today.
Speaker 1:I mean, in a way, I'm sure it's still going on. I wouldn't know. I'd say one of the big ones that journalists would be using is locating people, Because now if you've got a mobile phone, the police can locate you within a few yards and I would be surprised if hacks weren't somehow tapping into this service to locate people. But as for you know, the news of the world used to quite fancy going through medical records about 30 years ago. These days, that would be much in this sort of climate, that would be you couldn't really do it. I mean, the fact is that King Charles and the Princess of Wales both have cancer and there has been not a single squeak in any of the mainstream press about what sort of cancer they've had, which is amazing that it hasn't come out. But the press, in this current climate, can't print that information, Though I guess on the net there's a lot of speculation, but no one would touch it.
Speaker 2:That does raise an interesting issue is that, in recent years, what we've tended to see is newspapers in the UK not wanting to run a story, but the information somehow leaking out somehow, I say leaking out on Twitter, or, as we now call it, x. So are you saying, though, that that information about the royals is not circulating on X, or has it leaked out in that way?
Speaker 1:I don't think that many people know just a few doctors and maybe the very, very close members of the family, certainly not Harry or Meghan, because I think we know what they would have done with the information. They'd have called up their buddy, omid Scobie. Yeah, it's true, charles and particularly the Princess of Wales, are now sacred cows, and you would be you would not be want to be the newspaper breaking that story. Sometimes, what the mail used to do this was such a funny. They'd have this tasty story that they wanted to tuck into because their readers would, you know, want to be of interest to the readers, and what they then do is get some other paper to print it, like the sun or the mirror or maybe the star, and then they could pile in with all the detail and have confected outrage at what's been done with this story and how it's been printed in the first place.
Speaker 3:Very daily mail. Yeah, yeah, Can I ask? I mean, you don't have to answer if you want, but when you wrote the Spare Hair, do you now wish that you hadn't written that story?
Speaker 1:I wish I had written that story. No, the Sparrow Handbook was a I would say, a jokey little guide. It was about 12 years ago and Kate, prince George, had been born and Kate was pregnant with another kid, and so we didn't know whether it was going to be a boy or a girl, but it was just at the time. Uh, prince harry's advice to this spare air, um, didn't really sell very well, but it was a, it was a fun idea. And boy have have we been superseded by events, um, but it was fun. Yeah, it was just. It was just, uh, me channeling prince harry, though I would never have believed, it seems to me.
Speaker 1:What's so funny about prince harry and megan is they're all into their privacy and, you know, megan disowned her father because he incompetently I mean he doesn't hasn't got the first clue about the press. He incompetently I mean he doesn't got the first clue about the press he incompetently got going with uh photographer and uh staged some shots with him in the sort of, with this stupid belief that, uh, the press would then go away. And this was the excuse that Meghan needed not to deal with her father ever again, or indeed any of her siblings. But now what the hell has Harry just done with his book and all his interviews, if not exactly the same and times 10? But you know the great thing?
Speaker 2:Sorry, I was just going to say you don't think that your book was called the Spare Air. You don't think that maybe Harry took the title, maybe had a look at your book and sort of thought that's a good title for my book.
Speaker 1:You're welcome to it, Harry. I'm flattered that you want it. But what amazes me most about Harry and Meghan is they are the best thing ever for Fleet Street and journalists, because soap operas and tabloid newspapers love friction. And without the goddamn friction there is no story. All you've got is pretty pictures of the Princess of Wales planting a tree or opening a hospital, and that isn't a story. What we want is friction. And you know, for a long time it was just Prince Andrew being a monster, but that's not really a story. That's not friction really, it's just him being an incompetent idiot. But with Harry and Meghan, you have got friction like nothing else and it's never going away. And you've got this whole bizarre thing about the cousins never meeting up. So, yeah, Fleet Street should be getting down on their knees and saying thank you to Meghan and Harry for what they have done for newspaper sales.
Speaker 3:I'm quite surprised that they are not trying to resolve this, because I think I mean we were out in LA last year and I think the industry there is struggling a bit, so I'm surprised they're not trying to reclaim, you know, trying to kind of make up with the palace, but so, but now. So after this, then where are you heading next? Where do you think, after Movie Rogue? When is it coming out?
Speaker 1:Movie Rogue is coming out in the autumn. I am just editing it up as we speak. And, yes, currently I am the world's expert on Stanley, this nutcase called Stanley Kubrick, and indeed Eyes Wide Shut. I might even have watched that film more than you have, john. Oh, I could believe that so yeah, on with the next novel.
Speaker 1:I'm not quite sure what it's going to be, but it will have the name Rogue in the title because, yeah, if you're writing a book you want to make sure it's part of a series. The first book is unlikely to go, but by the third or fourth, hopefully, you'll start to get some traction.
Speaker 2:So it will be another Rogue. Yeah, another Rogue. Well, the best of luck with that. Before we let you go, can I ask you because I have an interest in it as well about one of history's most famous rogues that you've written?
Speaker 1:about.
Speaker 2:Lord Lucan, lucky Lord Lucan, lucky Lord Lucan, which is the same kind of fictionalised memoir as you've done with, I think, prince Harry and also actually, I believe, simon Cowell. So what's your latest take on Lord Lucan? There was a documentary, I think about a year ago, in which the nanny, sandra Rivett's son, claimed to have tracked down Lord Lucan to Australia, but I believe that was quickly debunked. But what's your own take on that?
Speaker 1:The Lord Lucan story is, for any aspiring hack, this great white whale of an exclusive. It is this massive story that has been out there for 50 years and for any hack who can crack it, who can genuinely crack it, what happened to this guy? They will have fame and immortality will be assured them, and it's it is. And the beautiful thing is that we all know this story is out there. Um, so, the story about lord lucan for and most people under the age of 40 have not heard of him, but it's a great story. Uh, it happened about 50 years ago. Lord Lucan was this very rich earl, seventh earl of Lucan, who would have then been worth about six million pounds and who'd managed to gamble the lot away. He was estranged from his wife, veronica, and had three children. He moved out of the family house and in 1974, he comes up with this hatches, this brilliant plan to kill his wife and drop her body off in the channel. And we can't be sure what happened on this November 9, 1974, but the best bet is that he got the wrong woman. It might have been somebody else. He got the wrong woman. It might have been somebody else, but unfortunately his wife's nanny, sandra Rivett changed her night off and so, instead of being away at the cinema, was back home and Lord Lucan was down in the basement of this house in Belgravia. He'd unscrewed the kitchen light bulb and this petite woman trots down the stairs and he attacks her with this piece of lead piping, hits her five or six times over the head and kills her, and then discovers that he's got the wrong woman. It's not his petite wife, it is Sandra Rivett wife, it is Sandra Rivett. And then, 15 minutes later, veronica, the wife, comes down the stairs saying Sandra, sandra, where are you? And uh, lucan attacks her on the stairs and they're fighting and he managed to hit her at once or twice over the head, but she knees him in the groin hard and that's him out. And then they, they're both sitting on the stairs having this uh odd conversation and he claimed that there'd been a burglar in the basement and he confronted the guy. But that doesn't really hold water. And then he says well, I'm just going off to wash my hands. And uh, so he goes upstairs to wash his hands and Veronica, the wife, takes her chance and runs out the house screaming murder, murder, and goes to this wonderful pub in Belgravia, the Plumber's Arms well worth a visit if you are a hag. And now they've got Lucan ale there and I'm all. Lucan then has about two minutes to get out of the house before the hue and cry starts. And he he's just going down the stairs and his daughter comes to him and says what's happening, daddy? And he says nothing. Go back to bed. And that, as as we know, is the last time he ever spoke to any of his children. His getaway car was discovered a couple of days later in New Haven, which is a port, and he has never been seen or heard of since.
Speaker 1:And so, as I say, for any hack who can discover what happened to him, it's a great, it's a great, great story. And so for a long time on Fleet Street there would be these periodic hunts off around the world. They all charged to Africa or Australia or you name it. The hacks were there and the police were there, but nothing really held water. And anyway, I was telling. About 15 years ago, I was telling my publisher about this story. He didn't really know the Lord Lucan story and I said to him hey, wouldn't it be great if we could find Lord Lucan? And then the penny dropped, I don't have to find Lord Lucan because I can just make it all up, and so that's what this is. This is the Lord Lucan, my stories, my stories, the old diaries edited by me.
Speaker 2:So what do you think, then, about the real case? I mean, there has been sightings in australia, south africa, um, some um stories that maybe, um, the children in later years were flown out to Africa to observe their father from a distance. Or do you think he's dead, that he just fell off the ferry? That's the family claim.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the family and all of Lucan's friends, all of that have all been saying the same thing for the last 50 years, and that is he killed himself. Yeah, couldn't take the shame, he couldn't take the ignominy. You know, he bought his last throw of the dice and he had no option but to kill himself. But there is no actual evidence for him having killed himself. The only evidence is that he hasn't been seen. But generally, if you want to kill yourself, you just kill yourself. You're not looking to and do away with your body as well. Um, so that's on the one side, and they were the family were slightly pissed off with me for a while, but now they've piped down because I've just been using it for yet more publicity, because we love friction, but I was leading the charge saying, well, hang on, the only evidence that he's dead is that we haven't seen him and he could easily have got away. And the fact is that Lucan had these two very rich, very unscrupulous friends called Jimmy Goldsmith and John Aspinall, and these guys had a lot of money and, crucially, they had mob contacts and these guys could have easily got Lucan out of the country. Have easily got Lucan out of the country. And once you've got him out of the country, well, you give him a I mean, goldsmith was probably worth hundreds of millions you give him a few million to sort himself out with a new life.
Speaker 1:And so occasionally there are little little clues that Lucan might have got away His watch turned up at a South African pawnbroker's and, as you say, john, his children would occasionally go out on safari, paid for by John Aspinall, and apparently Lucan would be sitting in a bush watching them from afar.
Speaker 1:And so there are little things like this, and the latest one is that Sandra Rivett, the nanny who was murdered, she had a son who was adopted and he found out comparatively recently that his mother was Sandra Rivett and that she'd been murdered. And so this guy, neil Berryman, has been on a quest now to find Lord Lucan much like us, though probably not with as much drinking involved, and he sounds slightly obsessive about it and he unbelievably got the BBC to make a three parter on his on his quest, parter on his on his quest, um, and he thought that he had tracked lord lucan down to, uh, australia, where lucan was apparently a retired buddhist monk, uh, and it amazes me that this was turned into a three-parter, because the both the police and the Australian police were quizzed about it and they said we have no interest in this man and that generally means it is not Lord Lucan Voila. So yeah, the beautiful thing about the Lucan story is that your guess is as good as anybody else's. There's very few actual concrete facts to go on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, agreed.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, and the final question to you is what would you say to your 21st-year-old self and maybe, what would you have done differently If you could go back in time?
Speaker 1:Buy Apple and Microsoft. I mean this sort of idea of changing things in your life. You know the whole thing strings together and without one link in the chain the whole thing can can change. And you know, I'm, I've got, I'm very happily married, I've got a couple of kids, and you know. So, you know, you know you you alter one thing and, um, yeah, you can change everything. Uh, so I would, yeah, buying apple and microsoft.
Speaker 3:Yeah, stick with those ones and uh, and is there anything else you want to tell our listener, or and how can they get in touch with you more?
Speaker 1:and where can they get out of the book? Oh well, the all my books are on amazon and, um, uh yeah, william cole's one is my Twitter thing. I've now got in tow with this great young lad I'm not very good with the internet, but he is and so we are now producing a ton of quirky little videos to try and flog the books, because these days, if you are a writer, it's not enough to have written a pretty good book. That is helpful to becoming a bestseller, though by no means essential. But if you want it to become a bestseller, then route one is to get it turned into telly or a movie, and route two is the Internet and seeing if you can turn yourself into a little internet star.
Speaker 2:Well all I would say, Bill, is thank you very much for your interview today and you've been a real internet star for us and it's been absolutely fascinating talking to you. And good luck with the new book, Movie Rogue, and these little side internet projects, video projects.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much. What a pleasure being with you.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much for being here and thanks also to our listener. And listen to our channel and please subscribe and see you next week.
