The Final Cut
The Final Cut is a bold and insightful podcast exploring the latest in film and television. Hosted by Professor John Cook and filmmaker Charlotte Bjuren, each episode dives into new releases, classic gems, and the stories shaping screen culture today.
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The Final Cut
Bonnie Clevering: Styling the Stars: A Hairstylist's Journey Through Five Decades of Cinema
Bonnie Clevering's half-century career as a Hollywood hairstylist reads like a who's who of cinema royalty. From styling Elvis Presley and Bette Davis during the twilight of the studio system to creating iconic looks for Julia Roberts, Brad Pitt, and Kristen Stewart, Bonnie has maintained the perfect coif through five decades of filmmaking evolution.
Her journey began in 1964 when she arrived in Hollywood with a Florida hairstyling license and a dream. Through determination and a fortuitous connection, she found herself working at 20th Century Fox, learning the essential craft of theatrical hairstyling – from applying period wigs to creating looks that could withstand the demands of filmmaking. As she shares in this candid conversation, the role extends far beyond styling; it's about maintaining meticulous continuity across scenes that might be filmed months apart.
Bonnie's stories humanize the legends she's worked alongside. She recalls playing practical jokes on Elvis (including one involving spirit gum as "hand lotion" that left The King picking adhesive from his fingers all night), cooking her famous sausage biscuits and gravy for the Ocean's Eleven cast in Las Vegas, and witnessing Brad Pitt's quiet generosity toward crew members facing personal hardships. Throughout her extraordinary career spanning 120+ productions, she's developed close bonds with directors like Oliver Stone and Steven Soderbergh, becoming part of their trusted "family" of collaborators.
Perhaps most fascinating is Bonnie's perspective on Hollywood's transformation – from the controlled environment of studio lots to the global, budget-conscious productions of today. Her advice to aspiring hairstylists and her younger self alike? "Take everything a little lighter and not quite so serious." Discover more of Bonnie's remarkable Hollywood journey in her upcoming memoir "Continuity: Life Beyond the Credits," available this September on the books website: https://continuitybybonnieclevering.com/
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Hot lights fade, the curtains rise, new stories waiting behind our eyes, charlotte and John with the final say, breaking down the screens in their own way. This is the Final Cut, where the real reviews. Well, hello there, welcome to another Final Cut podcast, and this week it's absolutely no cliche to say that we've got the hairstylist to the stars with us. This is another one of our really interesting podcasts featuring people who've worked in or around Hollywood, and today I'm delighted to welcome Bonnie Clevering, who has had a career spanning over 50 years, starting with the tail end of the Hollywood studio era and taking us right up to the present day.
Speaker 1:She's worked in over 120 productions in the hair or makeup department hair stylist, and her list of actors that she's worked with is stellar Everybody from, would you believe, elvis Presley and Betty Davis in the 60s right through to names that are household names today, like Brad Pitt, julia Roberts, keanu Reeves, hillary Swank, al Pacino, jennifer Aniston.
Speaker 1:Not only that, but she's also worked with some of the most distinguished directors in Hollywood, names as multifarious as Paul Verhoeven, oliver Stone who she's worked with in numerous pictures, including JFK and Born on the Fourth of July Brian de Palma. Also Steven Soderbergh. So this is a lady with an absolute stellar set of credits and since 2001, she's been a member of the Academy of Arts and Motion Picture Sciences ie, the people that give out the Oscars. So I'm delighted to welcome Bonnie here today, and in September, you can read all about her history in Hollywood. She's got a new memoir out called Continuity Life Beyond the Credits, co-written with her son, jason, and this is going to be published via Punctuate Press and will be available to order online. So, bonnie, without further ado, it's an absolute delight to welcome you. Welcome to Final Cut Podcast.
Speaker 2:Welcome. Oh, I'm so pleased to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1:Thank you, and you can see you're actually holding up your book there.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:A lovely gold-colored copy by the looks of it.
Speaker 2:Yes, very heavy Hundreds and hundreds of pictures of all kinds of things. Wow, yeah, it goes on and on. Amazing.
Speaker 1:So people can order this online, I believe.
Speaker 2:Yes, as you said. Yes, they can, and it's even by continuity by bonniecleveringcom. So yeah, and then they'll have it in September.
Speaker 1:Great stuff. Well, as a sort of taster for actually people buying and reading that extensive memoir, let us try and take you through some of the highlights of your career. No pun intended when we're talking about hairstyling. So can I take you right the way back? You weren't born in Hollywood. I think you came to Hollywood, didn't you? Can you maybe explain to us how you first got into the movie business?
Speaker 2:I went to Hollywood in 1964, and I had a hairstyling license in the state of Florida.
Speaker 2:So I knew when I went to Hollywood I would work at a beauty salon and have to get a California state license. And so when we first we were newly married and when we got there I started looking at salons. And then there's a gentleman that lived in the apartment complex we did, and he said why don't you try to see about getting in the studios as a hairstylist? And I thought, yeah, every hairdresser's dream to do movie stars. Well, he kept pushing me so I went ahead and I met Carmen Dorigo, who was the head hairdresser back then on Petticoat Junction and the Beverly Hillbillies, and so I met her and she took such a liking she referred me to the head hairdresser at 20th Century Fox and so I got my state license and then at the beginning I just worked on big movies where I just worked on extras, because I didn't have the experience nights of just showing how to apply an Indian wig, a toupee, a period wig, all kinds of hairstyling tools to use.
Speaker 3:So to clarify for our viewers so what does a hairstylist do on the set? I mean, I believe questions like continuity is very important. What is actually the role of a hairstylist?
Speaker 2:Well, now we have a makeup trailer where at the very beginning, we always did our actors in a studio and then go to the stage.
Speaker 2:But basically the last many, many years, you have a makeup trailer that consists of makeup and hairstylist and then the actor comes in and, depending on if their hair is wet or if they don't have to have a lot of hair, they'll go to makeup first, but usually they'll come to hair first, because either I have to wrap their head properly to apply a wig later on in the morning and they go to makeup and then they come back to hair, or, if it's a hairstylist that a hairstyle that really needs last minute work, they'll even go and get their wardrobe on, come back to the makeup trailer, finish their hair and then we go to the set and then where the continuity comes in is after every scene.
Speaker 2:I take pictures and we use Polaroid film for many years and then mark the Polaroid with the scene number and the day of the script, and then we'd keep those because it might be where Julia Roberts is outside. We're filming in the rain or the snow, and then she walks up to the door and it might be two months later. We filmed the interior. So that's why I have to take the front, each side in the back of the hairstyle for every scene, because I have to match that when she walks in the living room or wherever she's walking into days or months later, and so that that's where the continuity, you know, comes in, and that's part of the continuity of life, too that I write about in my book.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. Well, we would be remiss if we didn't touch on some of these major stars that you worked with in the early years of your career. Elvis Presley how did you come to work with him and how did you find him as a star, both as a star and as a person?
Speaker 2:Well, I was working at MGM Studios and I had just finished a series with Robert Wagner and Stephanie Powers called the Girl from Uncle and the man from Uncle from uncle, and uh, and so that was up and then by the head of the department assigned me it was more or less assigning me to the speedway the presley sinatra movie, and uh. So I was in charge of nancy and then touching up or watching Elvis, because the makeup man was the one that actually did his hair in the morning, but a lot of the men just did their hair at home and then we would just watch it during. But what was one of the most exciting things during the filming, priscilla Presley was pregnant with Lisa Marie and Nancy Sinatra gave Priscilla a baby shower and invited me up to her home and there were just maybe 12 women there and I at the time had an infertility problem and had a lot of miscarriages. So halfway through the shower Nancy had Priscilla and I stand up. What is she doing? And it's an old Italian wives tale to rub the hands out of pregnant woman's stomach, and that is supposed to bring you luck. And that was the month.
Speaker 2:After about two and a half years I got pregnant with Jason. That's nice, yeah. And so I have a little in the book. There's a picture of the little thank you note that Elvis and I want to thank you for the gift and the return address was Memphis, handwritten, and I think back then it was like a four cent stamp. So that's kind of the start. And then I did with Nancy Sinatra. Then she did a musical special which was also her father, frank D Martin, sammy Davis Jr. So I was kind of in that little rat pack then. And then years later I'm doing Ocean's 11 and Ocean's 12 with the new rat pack.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right because it's on your CV. You worked obviously with George Clooney and Brad Pitt, but you actually go back to the original rat pack.
Speaker 2:Amazing. Yeah, I was the only one that on the whole set, except for our producer, Jerry Weidrop, that had worked also with Elvis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Elvis himself. How did you find him as a person or a personality?
Speaker 2:Oh, so nice, so soft-spoken. But he and all the buddies that he always had around him, they just always were playing jokes at each other. They're just trying to see how they could get the next one, but thinking, oh, this is real. So I came up with a couple of jokes on Elvis, because they didn't expect it for me at all.
Speaker 1:Can you, can you give us an example?
Speaker 2:Well, one of them most of his guys and he smoked like a little cigar, like a Tipperillo or a small cigar. And so one day I said to him Elvis, let me light your cigar. And so one day I said to him Elvis, let me light your cigar. Well, I had one of those Zippo lighters that you can add the flame going up or down.
Speaker 2:So I had it on the high flame and I went to it and afterwards I thought oh, my God well, if I'm going to blow it off his pompadour, yeah, if I'm going to blow it off his pompadour, yeah. And then the other thing was he was complaining about how dry his hands were and around his cuticles. And so there's a product that is used when you do a hair lace wig, which is a fine netting along the face is you glue it with the spirit gum. That's invisible. So one day I said to Elvis I said I got the best hand lotion for you, or oil.
Speaker 2:And so what I did is I rubbed my hands first in nice, smelling lotion, because I knew he's always on alert. So what I said here, let me give you some of this. And he said let me smell it. So I let him smell my hand so he could smell the perfume he smelled. And then I poured this glue and he rubbed. I said it's too much rub and rub it. Well, his hands start sticking together. So the makeup man came with the rubbing alcohol and a denatured alcohol to remove it. And the next day when he came to work he said I sat all night in front of that TV picking out that stuff out of my cuticles and nails so we had a good time yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3:So you work from start, everything from Elvis to Kristen Stewart. How do you adapt your approach when you work with different personalities and time period? How do you adapt to different people?
Speaker 2:Well, it's just at the beginning. You just kind of see if they and the thing is, if they want to talk a lot, if they want to use you as a psychiatrist and you know cry, or if they you know what their interests are or they just might. And everyone had a certain kind of music. So usually in our makeup trailer trailer after we were out of the studios, then we always had music going. And if it was soft music, if it was rock music, whoever we were working with at the time kind of chose the music. So it was a little rock and trailer a lot of times. But you know, you just kind of like when you meet someone, if they're very talkative or quiet, I just knew how to balance that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the hairstylist in some ways is the confessor figure. You know they can confess to you that they might not to others others, I mean. What I find remarkable about your career is you've worked, you span that era from the end of the studio system right through to, I think, um. You finished up on the working with kirsten stewart on the the twilight saga, um well, I after twilight I did uh.
Speaker 2:Later I did with stu Kristen the Huntsman, but then I had retired. And then, a few years later, Jennifer Aniston, who I'd worked with before and of course I knew her through Brad in the Oceans 11 and 12, because she'd come to the set. I ended up working with her again and she called me and they took me out of retirement. I said okay, I'll come and do it. So that was really my last job and it's called Dumplin' and it's on, I think, Netflix.
Speaker 1:On Netflix. So obviously it shows the tremendous trust and faith that these stars have in you. Literally, you were called out of retirement. Jennifer Aniston phoned you up and said could you help her? Can I take you back, though, to another star from the classic era, betty Davis, who you work beside?
Speaker 2:Yes, she and Robert Wagner were very, very close friends and back in the sixties you didn't see big movie stars working on a TV series and Robert Wagner was doing it's called it's takes a thief, and so he asked Betty, he said, hey, come on and do a little spot, you know, on my film. So so I, I did her and it was very easy and simple. She's very, you know, not like, oh, fix this and oh, no, no, let you know, it was just like she was into her acting and you know her hair and makeup logs. It was, you know. Okay, he liked it, that was fine. So, uh, I just worked with her on on that, uh, tv series just the ones, yeah, yeah so, and then I worked with share too.
Speaker 2:Back then he was, uh, yeah, she was on, uh, one of the series and was in disguise. So that's what you had that long black hair down to her waist and I had to disguise her in a blonde wig. So I had to and these are things that I learned and I trained for was wrapping that hair, so it was so flat against her head and it was evenly distributed, so when the wig went on, there wasn't a bulge here, up here or back here, and then I put the short blonde wig on her.
Speaker 1:Share. In a blonde wig there's a thought yeah, so the changes that you've seen must be immense. You started in that classic era, or sort of really the tail end of the old style studio system. Then you took a break, I think, for about 14, 15 years, and then returned to Hollywood, is that? Is that correct?
Speaker 2:well, I, I, we went from yeah, from uh la, to indianapolis and I worked in a high-end beauty salon right. And then in the 80s is when we went to uh dallas, texas, and found out they were filming. They had texas at the time had a good tax incentive, was doing a lot of filming, so I had no idea that I was going to get back in the business. And then I was working in Dallas on several things for more than a few years and since I'd started building up a reputation and everything, my husband and I decided to go back to hollywood. And then that's when I started again. I feel like I almost started over then in hollywood, but uh, I was very fortunate to get a couple great films of great directors or actors. And then I lost my husband he was just 55 years old with cancer and uh, my career just took off about a year, year and a half after that and it was non-stop to see the world too can I just ask you so?
Speaker 3:you have seen so many technological and cultural shifts in this. How do you feel the that hair styling has changed when you started in Perry Valvis? How has it developed in your opinion?
Speaker 2:Well, if you look back, even like any old movies like Rita Hayworth, even in the 40s and 50s, women hardly ever changed their hair. There might be a scene with a nightgown and robe that their hair might be down or something, but most of the time that hair was like a helmet, the whole film. So there were like when I worked with Nancy Sinatra, we had a fair amount of hair changes. Like when I worked with Nancy Sinatra, we had a fair amount of hair changes, but we didn't like Betty Davis. I mean she had the same hair. So I just found through the years that's why I have in this book thousands of continuity pictures, because if you watch a lot of the movies today, you'll see how the hair has changed. It's down, it's up, it's over, it's got a hat, it doesn't have a hat, and so we've seen a lot of changes, a lot of more work too, in a way, and especially the continuity that's so important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also feeding on from that, how do you think the wider industry has changed? I imagine it must be almost unrecognizable between the start of your career and when you eventually finished up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and everything has gotten into most, most things such a budget anymore and so little is being done in Hollywood. They're really really hurting now. The other day and someone go to a breakfast and the proceeds of that breakfast was going to pay union members their dues so they could stay in the union. So right now hollywood is really really hurting for film work in hollywood because they can go other places and do it less. But of course for years they've been going to other places just because of the exterior scenery. If it's you know, australia, they do a lot there. I mean, I did a lot in even Canada because the budget was better there. Plus for the script there were certain scenes that were too good in Canada.
Speaker 1:So obviously, one key factor in the changes is a lot more travel. You know, in the old days a lot of stuff would be shot on the lots, presumably the studio lots, whereas today a lot of travel and also, obviously, the decline of the studio system, or the old style studio system, uh, mgm and so forth. Now, of course, it's large corporations like like sony, disney, and increasingly the tech companies, uh like amazon, that are coming in. Um, so on the whole, um, I guess you would. Would you characterize it as a narrative of decline, or do you think that there are advantages now that the old studio system is no longer with us? I mean, where do you fall on that?
Speaker 2:Oh, I think, I think there's somewhat of a decline and it's, I find, it sad for so many of the union people that have families and everything. It's really and you know the budgets and there are, I mean, a lot of actors, even themselves. They're not getting the money that they used to, the money that they used to and and I think with things moving, you know, to Netflix and Amazon and all of them, that changes. But as far as the old Hollywood, the, the class of it and the hours, because, like when I was well, any of the studios I worked at Universal, warner Brothers, but I was at MGM so much that we filmed everything on stage, the only thing.
Speaker 2:We'd go to the back lot once in a while and film some exterior things, but on Friday we were always home, you know, even if it was nine o'clock at ten o'clock at night, where my last job in uh, before uh, jennifer Edison, but I was with Hilary Swank in Africa and we went to work at 10 in the morning and we got home the following morning at six and uh and oliver stone, we worked a 24-hour day. One time we were ready to wrap and it was a next to the last day of shooting and oliver got the whole crew together and said, except for the technicians, everyone could go home or their hotels or whatever, and that come back after so many hours because they would be lighting and everything. And then we would continue and they would keep us on double and triple time and mail, penalties and everything. But then we put two days into one and so it's. You know, they're just trying to get more and more you know out of the workers.
Speaker 1:Out of the workers.
Speaker 2:Because of budgets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now Oliver Stone is somebody I wanted to ask you a bit about and touch on your work with directors as well as actors. Now you were in quite a lot of Oliver Stone pictures from Born on the Fourth of July, jfk, any Given Sunday, heaven and Earth some absolutely classic Oliver Stone movies. But from that story it suggests that Oliver Stone's a little bit of a taskmaster. Is he a little bit of a military commander?
Speaker 2:Well, he's so brilliant and he knows what he wants and he's a nice kind man, but you better get it right and or else you know, you hear about it, but he carried on with so many of the same crew throughout his film, so it was kind of family kind of like Steven Soderbergh. I did several with Steven and it was just kind of family. Everyone knew how to work, what Stephen was expecting out of us, and same with Oliver. But I think they're both brilliant directors and human beings.
Speaker 3:Can I ask you something, though? You have worked with so many amazing people and you've had such an amazing contribution to this film, but your name yourself isn't in the spotlight, but your work is so unforgettable. How do you feel of being part in the invisible art of the film?
Speaker 2:Oh fine, I mean it never affected me, or I've thought much about it.
Speaker 1:I mean it never affected me or I've thought much about it, so you wouldn't want to be a star in yourself. I mean, you must have seen so many stars. I mean we all think about the glamour of Hollywood, but I suspect also you know there's a lot of people maybe don't want to be in the spotlight all the time, but of course when you're a star you have to be 24-7 in the spotlight. I mean without obviously going into confidences with people you've worked with. I mean, have you seen the downside of stardom and glamour?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I think a lot of it is. When there's crowds, people hanging on automobiles and limousines and you know things like that, it's like just almost too much. But yet I think most of everyone I've worked with understand why they're there because of those people and the ticket sales or whatever. And I remember with Kristen Stewart and Rob Pattinson, we would end up filming. It was at this little studio and it was so cold and rainy outside. It was so cold and rainy outside and we had fans down the road this country road just lined up all day, and when they got in the car to go back to town they had the driver stop and get out of the car and sign autographs for all these people that were in the road all day. And so they, they really appreciated it and so I found you know people, most actors are very kind about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, also within your book there are some lovely still photos of, I guess, what must be the actors being kind to you. There's one image that stuck in my mind of Brad Pitt seeming to present you with a birthday cake. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, and Brad, it was my birthday and that film was the Mr and Mrs Smith and we had a. He gave me a birthday cake and beautiful flowers and some gifts and then when we went to the set after lunch, it was a scene where there was kind of an old ballroom and band and the women were dressed lovely and there was women and men dancing this beautiful music and he had the band play Happy Birthday and sing. Everyone sang Happy Birthday, like 150 people to me, oh wow.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, and he's such a great man and just such a giver. I mean, if someone, if it was a driver or grip or anyone, and he found out that there was some health problem at their house or someone had got in an accident or the mother was ill, I mean he just had his assistant or what go over to that crew member, and just that, Brad wants to do something. You know, do you? You know, whatever gift certificates, the grocery store, it didn't matter, but he was always aware of what was going on around him and everyone was.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, and of course, you worked with Brad on the Oceans movies as well, which also starred George Clooney and Julia Roberts. I think you know Julia Roberts quite well. You've worked on quite a number of pictures with Julia Roberts. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:I did 10 movies with Julia Wow, and we started on Erin Brockovich and then went through the Oceans 11, oceans 12, all of those plus many in between, and I found, with her and Hilary Swank, kristen Stewart they all love to cook, right mine, kristen Stewart, they all love to cook and so I can't tell you the different times in different countries we were in and what we cooked and what we contributed to or whatever. It was fun because I love to cook myself. So I was like the mama of the kids, kids showing them, or them teaching me, some new recipes yeah, so um are you able to reveal um what julia roberts favorite food is?
Speaker 1:then?
Speaker 2:well, when, um, when I first started what I don't think we think we were just in the makeup trailer doing a makeup hair test for Erin Brockovich Somehow it came up that she loves sausage, biscuits and gravy and so I, after living in Texas and that you know, I got pretty good at making sausage, biscuits and gravy, and so there was a certain time that I got to make it and she fell in love with it. So it became a thing that my reputation got around Hollywood about my sausage, biscuits and gravy, and so we used to have a couple of friends, had weddings, and then Julia had a wedding and different things. So my gift at these weddings were the brunch the next day of the sausage, biscuits and gravy, and the last time I was up to 107 biscuits and I think 20 pounds of sausage or something, and so there's uh in the book is the recipe and uh, I've uh. Whenever we went on location, we'd always have uh, her refrigerator stocked with if it was fruit, strawberries, but we always had everything for sausage, biscuits, biscuits and gravy. So we're in Ocean's Eleven in Las Vegas and all the actors had these darling little houses down below the hotel and they're called villas, and so one Sunday afternoon. She said what are we going to eat tonight? And I said I don't know. She said, well, let's have the sausage, sausage, biscuits and gravy. I said for dinner. I said that's a breakfast thing. And she said, no, let's, because we're going to be leaving soon and we've had it in the fridge. So I said well then, let's order a big fruit tray from the hotel, something you know else that might coordinate with this.
Speaker 2:And all of a sudden she's doing one thing, I'm doing another, and the door knocks at her villa and it's Matt Damon. He said boy, we all smell this smell in the hallway. It smells so good. What is it? He said well, make it sausage bits of gravy. Well, before you knew it, at the long dining room table I had Clooney, I had Brad, I had Matt Damon, I had Don Cheadle. They were all there for it. And then one time, when she was on, julia was on Oprah Oprah kind of looks at her because you know Julia's got such a beautiful body. And she said and I understand, you like sausage, biscuits and gravy body. And she said and I understand, you like sausage, biscuits and gravy. And julia says oh, yeah, my friend bonnie makes the best.
Speaker 2:So in fact, I just saw an interview with brad on this f1 and the one of the guys he's talking to the the guys from england and he's got the english accent and talking about his food and Brad says, oh, but have you ever had saucy, or have you ever had? He called it gravy and biscuits. And this guy looks at him like what's that? Brad says, oh, it's a golden biscuit. And then there's gravy on top.
Speaker 1:Oh, it is so delicious and but he didn't say it was my recipe but I used to make it for him when I did. Yeah, well, you're right to say that in the uk they don't really so much know about that. We we, charlotte and I know about it because we've spent a little time in the us but um, but yeah, I guess the equivalent of his breakfast would probably be bacon, sausage and eggs or something like that in the UK. You know what they call a full English breakfast.
Speaker 3:Right. Can I take you back, though, to your memoir, my more. It's called A Continued Life Beyond the Credits. But what inspired you to write this and what surprised you most during the process?
Speaker 2:oh, bringing up, uh, just so many memories, I mean actually some sad but yet you know a lot of my past, just in my upbringing and things that transpired when I was younger and so forth, but then, of course, a lot of wonderful memories and how I grew through my life and my thoughts of life and people and everything. So you know, it took me years back also.
Speaker 2:Do you think that you want to get back sort of to Hollywood or get back, no, no no, I think I mean Jason and I have other ideas, and he's got some fabulous ideas for other other projects and books. But just because of my age too, I'm tired and I uh, you know I don't have that energy either for the hours, and because now I've got so many things coming up and interviews and television shows that, uh, I'm just trying to save myself.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, You're an amazing woman, but can I just ask you a bit about what advice I mean? If a young person wanted to go into Hollywood and become a stylist, what advice would you give a young person wishing to go? Into a career Well.
Speaker 2:I think it hasn't changed a whole lot. They definitely have to have the basic experience of working in a salon and knowing uh and then having to really study period work and, for instance, like in part of our tests, we're an Indian wig on a stuntman. That would fall off a horse and the thing is there's certain hairpins in a certain direction that you put them in so when they fall those wouldn't protrude in the head, in the head. So there's all these little things that they'd have to really learn by someone that very experienced, because and there there are a few schools they could go to and uh in california that they could do that too. But it's a very slow, long process and uh, and you know it's it's more difficult than it ever was to break in um the um I must.
Speaker 1:Before we we close up this interview, I must um also discuss with you one of my favorite films that I see you've worked on was Insomnia, directed by Christopher Nolan and starring Al Pacino, and you work beside Al Pacino, so I guess an example of a method actor rather than just a uh, just yeah yeah, al is just like one of the best.
Speaker 2:Edward norton reminds me of somewhat of al also. They're just I almost next to being geniuses and al would. Uh, that's the first time I'd worked with Al and I did just Al at Insomnia in Vancouver and then later I did Any Given Sunday and then I cut his hair for certain things in Hollywood, but he's one of the best actors I've ever worked with. I mean, without a doubt he's on top of that list.
Speaker 1:I mean, without a doubt he's on top of that list, but in terms of the preparation that he does, when you were styling him, was he in character, as it were, or is he just able to switch on and off a character?
Speaker 2:No, he would kind of start not like the first thing in the morning with the hair and makeup as much, not like the first thing in the morning with the hair and makeup as much. But after he'd get to the set you could see him getting into the groove and the move and everything that he needed to do in order to be as brilliant as he is. So, you know, kind of kept to himself, you know that kind of thing, and kept very quiet wherever we were, if we were outside or inside.
Speaker 3:Are there any particular hair styles you're particularly proud of?
Speaker 2:Wow, I really succeeded with that one succeeded with that one, or well, I think probably one was the wig and I know it's getting a lot of publicity for years is, uh, those wedding scene for Kristen Stewart. I think that with the braid and the bun and this, and that that as publicly has gotten more than anything I've ever seen. But as far as continuity goes, julia and Erin Brockovich, I had so many hairstyles, but not elegant, you know, but I mean one day she's crying, one day she's working, one day she's sweating, I mean, and then you know she had to be in court or she had to be in the office, and so there was just so many different looks that I had with her, but they weren't fancy looks, but it was the continuity of that show was probably one of the biggest I did it looks, but it was.
Speaker 1:The continuity of that show was probably one of the biggest. I did amazing um and just um to wrap up, because there's so much that we could go into here yeah, well, we can come back someday too yeah, I think we're going to have to do part two here. But, um, somebody else, a director that you've worked beside I imagine that that movie must have been quite an experience is when you came back to Hollywood, you worked with Paul Verhoeven on Robocop the original Robocop. Yes, verhoeven is quite a character. Oh, I know.
Speaker 2:How did you find?
Speaker 1:him.
Speaker 2:Oh, quite a character. But that was out of Dallas when I was in the 80s. Right Then we went out of Dallas and I was in the 80s. Right Then we went out of Dallas and then we did part of it in Pennsylvania. But I mean he knows what he wants, but I mean he's very energetic, very outspoken, but good at what he does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, he makes these terrific satires and robocop the original robocop is certainly certainly one of them. Um, but you know he's got a real cult reputation um, with movies like robocop and then later, of course, um showgirls and uh, and basic instinct. Well, look um bonnie, it's been absolutely terrific um talking.
Speaker 3:Oh, my pleasure just going to ask you to everyone. We have one question one more question sure, go ahead. So if you go back and give one piece to your younger self, particularly when you're 21 or what, what would you have said if you, if you met your 21 year old self? Piece of advice for the future.
Speaker 2:Maybe not be so hard on yourself. I think. Take everything a little lighter and not quite so serious, Because at the beginning naturally it was wonderful and that, but I was sweating. Every day I went to work and hoping that I'd please not just the actor but the director and the producers and you know, it wasn't just one person and getting along in the makeup trailer with new hairdressers and new makeup artists, and so I think, just take more deep breaths.
Speaker 1:That's lovely advice and great, great advice to end on Well, thanks ever so much, bonnie. I'm sure this book Continuity Life Beyond the Credits is going to fly off the proverbial bookshelves or online bookstores, if nothing else, not just for all these wonderful stories about the stars, but hey, for your recipe for sausage, biscuits and gravy.
Speaker 2:I know that's in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So good luck with it. And how can? If they want to find out more, they can buy your book, but how else can they get in touch?
Speaker 2:You said you had a website and well, if they go use my name and then go on imdb, that's the movie uh database, and so they just put my name and then they can see everything I've done. It's just a whole list of everything.
Speaker 1:Great Well. Thanks ever so much, bonnie.
Speaker 2:Oh well, thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 3:A pleasure and all the best with your forthcoming memoir Okay, okay, thank you, thank you.
